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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:49 pm 
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Urbis Saturn Land wrote:
From the GSV link MAs do look out of place but I do think that GEC 'Bricks' would have been used along that stretch.


Considering the columns were erected in the early '90s, I highly doubt Bricks would have been installed! The SGS204s are likely to be the original.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:59 pm 
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I think I mis-read your reply Alex :oops: .

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:06 am 
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Alex wrote:
I can't imagine them originally holding MA60s if they were installed in 1993/4 as they would have been very short lived! Additionally, I think the mounting height would be wrong for MA60s?

Alex wrote:
Considering the columns were erected in the early '90s, I highly doubt Bricks would have been installed! The SGS204s are likely to be the original.

Yes those SGS204s are original and the installation was installed sometime in the early 1990s (as I was also at Uni at the time and the journey to Uni went past these). The other identical installation to this, also installed in the early 1990s was between the Kelvedon South and Witham North junctions (Rivenhall End etc).

Until these installations appeared, and the installation of the GEC turtles during the Capel St. Mary realignment, there was no lighting at all on the A12 between the M25 junction at the London end and the Copdock interchange in Ipswich, a distance of some 57 miles*. Because lighting eluded this section of the A12 for such an unfeasibly long time, the road bypassed SOX lighting technology altogether and went straight for SON when lighting eventually did start to appear.

I think the installations at the Trueloves Interchange (in Alex's link) and the Rivenhall installation are 15 metres high, with the slip road lighting at 10 metres high (the slip road lighting with the SGS203s match the height of the existing 135w SOX lighting on the roundabout above).

Where replaced, the mounting height of these installations has always been reduced from 15 metres to 12 metres (Brentwood Bypass reconstruction, Witham Bypass reconstruction and the Kelvedon South safety scheme), which suggests that even the authorities realised that 15 metres was overkill for a dual carriageway!

*Excludes the short section of the A12 that was bypassed when the Copdock Interchange was built. This section of the A12 went from being lit to unlit!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:38 am 
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Checked on GSV and in fact the last column is just after the Copdock turn off, I wonder why it went from being lit to unlit as the A12 looks busy enough to me.

Similar to the M1, but that's for another thread.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:56 am 
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Thanks David!

David wrote:
*Excludes the short section of the A12 that was bypassed when the Copdock Interchange was built. This section of the A12 went from being lit to unlit!


I remember us discussing the turtles at Capel St. Mary (now A2000s) a while back via PM. So you're implying that the turtles went further than the Copdock/Washbrook junction all the way to the Copdock Mill interchange at Ipswich, but were then taken down?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:01 pm 
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Alex wrote:
So you're implying that the turtles went further than the Copdock/Washbrook junction all the way to the Copdock Mill interchange at Ipswich, but were then taken down?

That didn't happen. There was another reason why that section of the A12 went from being lit to unlit. This is my recollection of events (which may be a little woolly, as I was very young at the time!)

Before the early 1980s:

The A12 used to run straight into Ipswich town centre, and may have been lit all the way from the town centre down into Copdock. The A12 is such an old road (and quite possibly still on the Roman-built alignment at this section), and over the years it had attracted a lot of ribbon development with associated driveways, as well as side turnings, bridleways and farm tracks. Because of the amount of hazards, lighting of this road all the way down from Ipswich and through Copdock would have been justified.

Early 1980s:

Then in the early 1980s when the A45 Ipswich Southern Bypass was built (probably 1982, as that's when Wikipedia claims the Orwell Bridge was opened), an opportunity arose to take the A12 away from Copdock village on to a completely fresh piece of road, presumably as a safety measure to avoid the existing ribbon developments, side turnings, bridleways and farm tracks etc. With the A12 now having practically no obstacles between Capel St. Mary and Ipswich, there was no need for the road to be lit. Hence the A12 went from being lit to unlit in this section, but only because the A12 had been diverted onto a fresh, hazard-free section of dual carriageway. The lighting through Copdock remained on the declassified road, and the twin Fabrikat-style lighting columns with the uptilt brackets still exist to this day, but now have SON lanterns on (I cannot identify them, but I know that sotonsteve can!)

Very late 1980s / very early 1990s:

The GEC turtles at Capel St. Mary (junctions 32a and 32b) appeared in the very late 1980s or possibly very early 1990s, a few years before the SGS204s appeared at Rivenhall End (junction 22 to junction 23) and the Mountnessing Interchange* (junction 12). I would even suggest that had they appeared at the same time, they would also have been SGS204s or '203s. The turtles were installed as part of safety works along the A12 at Capel St. Mary.

As previously with Copdock, the A12 at Capel St. Mary also suffered from ribbon development, side turnings, bridleways and farm tracks, but instead of an off-line diversion, these various turn-offs were 'tidied up' into parallel-running roads and fewer but longer slip roads on to and off the main carriageway, with new lighting thrown in as part of the scheme.

Very early 1990s/early 1990s:

Needless to add, the Capel St. Mary turtles were installed too high (at 12 metres) for a two-lane dual carriageway, and when they were replaced with Thorn Alpha 2000s after an unfeasibly short period of time, the opportunity was also taken to replace the top sections of the Petitjean-style columns (which add two metres to the overall mounting height) with special brackets which gained practically no height but still had a two-metre outreach, hence the whole main carriageway installation was reduced from 12 metres to 10 metres without uprooting the columns!

Also worth noting is that the columns at Rivenhall End and Mountnessing Interchange were very over-engineered, with 15m octagonal columns combined with top sections that gain no mounting height. As previously stated, when the opportunity arises to replace them (Brentwood Bypass reconstruction, Witham Bypass reconstruction and the Kelvedon South safety scheme) the height is brought down to 12 metres with new columns, but where this hasn't been done, the policy appears to be to replace knockdowns with lower-height columns, presumably in the belief that within a few decades, most of the installation would have reduced from 15 metres to 12 metres thanks to the A12's appalling safety record!

* Not the Trueloves interchange as previously stated, which is one junction up (junction 13). Although this junction is also lit, the main carriageway is not.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:12 pm 
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Thanks David :D

David wrote:
(probably 1982, as that's when Wikipedia claims the Orwell Bridge was opened)


An old map book from the early '80s shows the southern bypass as under construction with the proposed opening date being 1982. The northern bypass was due for completion in 1984.

Quote:
The lighting through Copdock remained on the declassified road, and the twin Fabrikat-style lighting columns with the uptilt brackets still exist to this day, but now have SON lanterns on (I cannot identify them, but I know that sotonsteve can!)


The lanterns are P678s and have been there for nearly a decade. They are retrofits; the columns used to hold GR200s!

Quote:
The GEC turtles at Capel St. Mary (junctions 32a and 32b) appeared in the very late 1980s or possibly very early 1990s, a few years before the SGS204s appeared at Rivenhall End (junction 22 to junction 23) and the Mountnessing Interchange* (junction 12). I would even suggest that had they appeared at the same time, they would also have been SGS204s or '203s. The turtles were installed as part of safety works along the A12 at Capel St. Mary.


This serves as a really good example of turtles still being used even into the early '90s before they ceased in production.

For those who haven't seen, the Copdock junction also has two small GEC bricks used to light the underpass. They have since been painted the 'Suffolk green' in accordance to county guidelines. I wonder if these date back to 1982 when the junction first opened?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:07 pm 
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Last weekend's Ebay win gave me the opportunity to visit the declassified section of the A12 just south of Ipswich yesterday (23rd January 2011). Both carriageways still exist to this day almost 30 years after the off-line diversion was completed and opened to traffic.

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Before the A12 was diverted offline, this section of the A12 was lit. The street lighting still exists to this day, although the original SOX lanterns have long gone.

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The old A12 comes to a rather unceremonious end just before the A12 Copdock Interchange, where the diverted section of the A12 joins the A14 Ipswich Bypass.

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Just one lantern offers a clue to what may have been originally installed, although this in itself maybe a casual replacement. When I was a kid, the GEC Z9554 was a popularly installed casual replacement for the ELECO GR150, which matches Suffolk's historic preference for the ELECO brand which is still present today.

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Once a busy Trunk Road which continued straight into Ipswich, the dual carriageway was cut off by the construction of the A45 Ipswich Bypass (now the A14) at the same time, and all that remains is this pedestrian subway under the new road.


Last edited by David on Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:29 pm 
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Interesting. I wonder if they still work or have since fallen into disrepair?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:36 pm 
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A few more pictures from my trip to Suffolk yesterday (23rd January 2011)...

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Popular in the Suffolk parishes, the ELECO Silver Ray Junior can still be found in many of the county's villages. The integral-geared variant, as pictured above in Trimley St. Martin (just outside Felixstowe), is most commonly found on telegraph poles due to the absence of a column base to mount the gear remotely.

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A close-up of one of the Silver Rays in Trimley St. Martin. This one has the grooved bowl.

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Remote-geared Silver Ray Juniors are most popularly found on columns, although this one was found to be dayburning. This one has the smooth bowl. Both types of bowl are commonly installed.

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Integral-geared Silver Rays have also been installed on columns.

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This street has four ELECO Silver Rays in a line. Here are two of them.

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Although parts of Suffolk could be considered an ELECO stronghold, the defunct company is now losing its grip.

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A close-up of one of the more popularly-installed new lanterns on the outskirts of Felixstowe. These aren't installed in my corner of Essex, and I have no idea what they are!

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Deeper into Felixstowe, ELECO still makes its presence felt.

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Although other historic makes can still be found, like these Atlas/Thorn Alpha Threes!

I do have some sad news for Phosco though. The lovely old Phosco P160 photographed by Claire on the outskirts of Felixstowe back in 2009 is no more. Both the Phosco P160 and the adjacent ELECO GR150 have now been replaced with WRTL Arcs on the unsleeved concrete columns. The juxtaposition of old and new is almost a sight in itself!


Last edited by David on Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

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