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 Post subject: Re: Now and then
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:20 am 
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The other difference I noticed is that there is no bus stop shelter in the new picture, but there is in the old one! You'd have thought it'd go the other way...

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 Post subject: Re: Now and then
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:17 am 
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Gramma6 wrote:
If you look at the 1988 photo then you will see a casual replacement metal column with Z9554 which looks to be in the exact same spot as the current column with Trafficvision therefore it probably is the same column. Whether that means all the other columns had Z9554s originally is anybody's guess though seeing as how the Trafficvision only started to appear in the mid 90s it's more than likely they did. (Although to be pedantic if they were fitted in the 90s they'd be MRL135s, not Z9554s would they not?  ;)  :geek: )

Yes my point exactly, at this stage the TrafficVisions can't be definitely classed as original. The columns look too old for mid to late 90s (to tie up with when the TrafficVision first came out) and if they are around 1990 vintage it would suggest another lantern was fitted before them.

mazeteam wrote:
The other difference I noticed is that there is no bus stop shelter in the new picture, but there is in the old one! You'd have thought it'd go the other way...


Yep bus shelter gone, also some of the trees on the RHS of the picture. Pedestrian crossing is "new", much more white paint on the road. The green road sign has been replaced and although it is partly hidden by the cycleway sign (grass verge also gone to make way for it..), it no longer says M3 on the RHS exit, although M3 is marked on the road at the junction after that and I believe the accompanying road sign.


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 Post subject: Re: Now and then
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:29 am 
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Phosco152 wrote:
Gramma6 wrote:
If you look at the 1988 photo then you will see a casual replacement metal column with Z9554 which looks to be in the exact same spot as the current column with Trafficvision therefore it probably is the same column. Whether that means all the other columns had Z9554s originally is anybody's guess though seeing as how the Trafficvision only started to appear in the mid 90s it's more than likely they did. (Although to be pedantic if they were fitted in the 90s they'd be MRL135s, not Z9554s would they not?  ;)  :geek: )

Yes my point exactly, at this stage the TrafficVisions can't be definitely classed as original. The columns look too old for mid to late 90s (to tie up with when the TrafficVision first came out) and if they are around 1990 vintage it would suggest another lantern was fitted before them.


Good point Gramma6. Phosco152, do you know the manufacture of the columns? And is the column where the Z9554 was of the same manufacture? It's quite common for Wilts to mix and match columns. So they could have just retrofitted to the Z9554 [I'd assume it was British Steel] and the columns that replaced the concretes are probably CU Phosco columns because the council started using them at the turn of the decade. The Trafficvisions also look quite clean, which suggests they aren't 20 or so years old...

So if all the columns are CU Phosco then the only SOX lantern(s) that I think would have been there before the Trafficvisions would be the MA Series... But if there are any columns that are British Steel, then I think this shows a good chance that SOX were on those columns in particular.

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 Post subject: Re: Now and then
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:16 pm 
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The older column that had a Z9554 on originally for definite looks like the same make as the newer ones from the picture although I know some column manufacturers produce very similar models (Mallatite and Fabrikat seem the most distinctive). The MRL135 (WRTL version of Z9554) was produced until about 2005 so the use of these can't be ruled out even if the columns are newer. The Trafficvisions in the picture look very smart and clean though, I don't think they'll be much more than five years old and if the columns were installed in the early 90s it would make more sense as it means the original lanterns would have had a longer lifespan. It would seem silly and wasteful to replace them after just a few years service.


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 Post subject: Re: Now and then
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:28 pm 
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The column which had the 9554 is the one to the right of the blue Renault which is a British Steel one. The base to main column tube taper is different on this column compared to the others and it has the BS logo on the door.

All the other columns are CU.

So it looks like when the road was relit, the 9554 column was retained.

None of this of course helps to tell if the TrafficVisions are original to the columns. If SOX lanterns were fitted previously I doubt it would have been MA50s as these still exist on Churchill Way West on 12m columns. Some of those columns still have 9554s on them - the MA50s only partially replaced them. Those columns are a more likely canidate to have new SON lanterns given they are older, so why replace MA50s if they were fitted to the columns in my picture?

My bet is that those columns are around 1990 vintage (painted columns weren't used soon after that)and were originally fitted with 9554Ms/MRL135s and had TrafficVisions retrofitted during the late 90s/ early 2000s. The TrafficVisions don't look that clean close up - not helped by the trees, but they look around 10 -15 years old. It will have to remain mystery until more evidence is found.


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 Post subject: Re: Now and then
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:36 pm 
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Phosco152 wrote:
The TrafficVisions don't look that clean close up - not helped by the trees, but they look around 10 -15 years old. It will have to remain mystery until more evidence is found.


Seeing as we're talking Philips lanterns, it's worth noting that the canopies of the SGS203s on the A27 in Park Gate are in good clean condition, whilst those on the A335 Thomas Lewis Way are scabby. Only two years separate them.

The TrafficVisions won't predate 1993 anyway, which was about the time they were launched.


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 Post subject: Re: Now and then
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:40 pm 
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Exactly, so if the columns were around 1990 they would have had to have something else prior to the TrafficVisions, if they were around mid 90s the TrafficVisions could be original.


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 Post subject: Re: Now and then
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:52 pm 
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I'd guess then that the TrafficVisions are original to the CU columns, I can't see the council replacing nearly a whole road 3 years after a previous replacement was completed!

I'm quite surprised that Trafficvisions were used at that stage in the 90s, for most of Wiltshire, the SGS203 was the only SON lantern being used, and even that was in reasonably small numbers. We have a road lit by very scabby SGS203s and the CU columns, although not painted are the type that were used here in the early 90s... Similar to the ones now but with a shallower step from the base to the main tube.

It could be possible hopwever that those columns are younger than we think, about 1995... because we have a double bracketed CU column in our town which was installed in the early 2000s [and is painted the usual colour scheme], and there is also a column with double SGS203s with this [but the council probably asked Tesco to match the other columns] and there is another example in a village. Infact, 'Vectra Village' was built late 90s and all the new columns were painted then too, so it is very possible.

I would just like to point out that I am glad they didn't replace the British Steel column, it would have been such a waste and as we can see it looks just as good as the others, even now!

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 Post subject: Re: Now and then
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:15 pm 
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The columns can be as old as 1988 or as new as 1995. Any newer than that they would be galvanised and the taper changed as witnessed by the other CU columns on the rest of Churchill Way. If they were mid 90s then SGS203s would likely to be the fitted lantern as elsewhere in south Wiltshire for columns of that age.

TrafficVisions can't be any older than 1993 and those certainly don't look like 17 years old.

Therefore there may be at least a 5 year gap for another lantern. As for columns being replaced after only a few years, it happens all the time, quite often newer casual replacement columns in an older scheme that is renewed will still be removed when the older columns are replaced. The same for lanterns - plenty of 5-10 year old lanterns in scrap piles, seen in several depots. Salisbury have fitted new lanterns on old columns on several of the A roads in the city, so there is a precedent for this.


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 Post subject: Re: Now and then
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:22 pm 
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Castle Street, Salisbury, 14th June 1975.

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This is the only "vintage" colour photograph I have found so far that features a Stanton 6B column. Frustratingly the lantern is out of shot. Originally these columns were fitted with open sodium lanterns. There are literally hundreds of black and white photos of these in Salisbury. The column has yet to be sleeved - this happened to other Stanton 6Bs in Salisbury in the 1980s - so it may well still have had its original lantern at this time. Southampton still had its open sodium lanterns during the 1970s. The column looks to be in excellent condition.

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Same location January 2010. A CU Phosco column with a SGS203 has replaced the Stanton. The exact date this happened is unknown but the column looks around mid 1990s vintage.


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